With our present kind of National Assembly Nigeria cannot arrive the El Dorado – Umunna

Leonard Umunna is a bishop and founder of Bible Life Church (worldwide). He is also a public affairs commentator. In this interview with ZEBULON AGOMUO, he spoke on a wide range of issues bordering on the state of the nation, He urged those in the government to have the interest of the people at heart. Excerpts:

This is a difficult period in our country. Insecurity is mounting and attracting global attention. How do you feel as a citizen of Nigeria?

To me, the answer is just hanging open in the air like a festering wound; everybody knows that this wound is smelling and they know that the doctors are not ready to treat it because both the patient and those supposed to treat the wound are not willing to pay the price. One, that was what happened during the time of Jonathan and he came out and openly announced to the whole nation that saboteurs that are sponsoring terrorism and all that had to do with Boko Haranm were in his cabinet, and that with that he was not finding it easy to win that war. When Buhari, because of corruption in the system, there was implosion and explosion of insecurity. It has remained an open sore. They know who is having the wound, but they don’t want to talk, they are covering it. They are busy pointing finger to the wrong places and persons, while leaving the person carrying the festering sore. That is number one reason. Number two reason is internal corruption. The kind of government that Nigeria operates does not make room for progress that will benefit the people, but only what will benefit the oligarchy. The members of the so-called oligarchy in Nigeria, who determine what happens in the country, are the main problem of this country. Before Tinubu came to power, people raised concern over the Moslem-Moslem presidency, now that he is in power nothing has happened; nobody is addressing that important matter. The way the government is being run is what has perpetuated this insecurity and corruption. They are not ready to make any change about these things.

The IGP, Egbetokun has been removed in a controversial circumstance. Why are our public office holders always disappoint by the way of allowing themselves to be overcome by corruption? How do we begin to raise credible public officers?

Very simple. Nations that have overcome this took to this same step of going to the foundation. But we want to reach the top without a good foundation. It’s not the best way to bring down the tree with all its fruit, by going to cut the fruits one by one and then cut the branches one by one. Just go to the root, right? And the tree is down with all on it, including the branches and leaves with fruits. Good. The institutions that produce these people are left behind. Big secret. It’s like they want to correct the school system, and you don’t start from the nursery, primary and make the children to become good in the basic subjects of mathematics, English, Art and science. And you do not make them to be very capable in writing; very legible handwritings. If you don’t produce good and very legible handwriting, you know that whatever you are going to write is going to be suspect. Because somebody may not have time to read the bad writing, because the person has many question papers to mark within a given period. And the person may be tempted to mark by whatever sentiment or assumption. The same thing in governance. If the institutions that train them were allowed to be partakers of those who will be monitoring them in the office, it will be, hey, what were you taught on this subject? What are you practising? You know by that they will correct it. Even if they don’t take this system, make something along that line. But our own is, they allow the National Assembly, which in most cases, most of them are corrupt. Some of them are ignorant. When sycophancy meets with ignorance, and ignorance meets with corruption, these three in one group cannot be easily broken according to the Bible. It is a dangerous tripod! So, if we can change that system, so that we will not be fighting the fire, but catch the chap with the match. You know, if the fire is on now, we call in these fire extinguishers to put out the fire. But if you had already presumed that somebody might come to burn this place, and ensure that nobody goes in with any fuel, any combustible material, let alone a match; I mean, nothing to strike and ignite fire. And with good security personnel positioned, and the smoke detectors are there, it will be minimised, and even if the fire starts, it can be easily arrested. But when they are trying to tackle it at the top, the ones under are coming up. So, if you want to put out the fire, put it out to the down level, so that the smokes are well put out. I’ve said these things several times. Have the institutions empowered with men and women of integrity, so that our universities will produce technocrats, produce artisans, produce inventors, produce politicians, and they can be examined or sent to school back to checkmate them and see what political statements you made the other time. By these actions you took, you were wrong. Was it what was taught you? Checkmate them, if they know that they will be examined by a public body. And not after something has happened, then you now constitute a committee or a panel or hand over to the Nigerian kind of judiciary, who, some of them are tired because of bad names already, and the good ones are falling, because even the bad ones and the good ones are now being taken as all bad. It can be done, whether on our school system or on our political governance. Whatever level of challenge we are facing, start from the root and deal with it, and put credible people both at the root and at the top, so that if these ones are not getting it, the next set will. That is, make the chain to be strong all corners, not only at a particular point when you want to insert the padlock. The system must be changed. I have shouted and getting my voice hoarse by saying that our constitution is bad, that if you give a bad leader a good constitution, he will not do well, he will still do his will. But if you give a good leader a bad constitution, he will do well, because his good conscience, character formation, background will not allow him to go that corrupt way.

It is being alleged that governors on the opposition platforms have been coerced and bribed with huge amount of money to join the ruling party. What danger do you see in this mass exodus?

The danger is the attempt to make Nigeria a one-party country. And it will not work because it will corrupt them more. And if they split into various divisions or have 24 or 36 nations come out of Nigeria, they have only learned wrong and not right. They will go and continue and even expand it and make it worse. What is best is to begin to formulate African system that will best meet our needs. Before, they talked about different types of the presidential, this and that. Presidential system came from America, so they said. And we are not operating the way America was operating it when they were at the stage we are now. Let’s say now that America’s own has reached 400 years and ours is 100 years; we are trying to imitate America at 400 years. I hope you get the point. In those days, where we are now, was when they allowed their great critics to talk and correct leaders. And they were using the various things they were encountering to formulate rules and regulations or laws. But we have already allowed that the north must have this number more. The east must have this number less. And the oil is in the east. So, east will produce what will take care of the north. And the north, their leaders are not ready to care for their people first. They themselves want us to join and loot the thing, take it abroad, so that when anything happens, they will go and enjoy there. So, that’s a very big cause of this issue of corruption in Nigeria.

America has advanced, they are still doing better. So, systems of governance we practised in those days were far better than what we have today. In the 60s, our leaders would bring some traditional leaders to join and say their mind. And they carried them along to the people to formulate laws. But now, no, no, no; the laws we pass must be two-thirds of so and so. And those two-thirds people may not really know what Nigerians are suffering. They are mainly rich people. They are not a mixture or middle-income people. You see, that takes me to the next thought coming to my mind. Where are the people who used to call middlemen? No more middlemen now. Then we used to have middlemen, right? The middlemen have been knocked out now. We now have super rich men versus paupers all over the place. So, they can easily be bribed. You see, the trouble anytime there is election; I mean, the story will be “there is a glitch” here, while they are bribing the people to come out and vote for them. And you will be hearing of war here and there. They now use guns and use people they have bribed to stop these ones. This is what actually I think is the main cause of this very problem. The right thing is to review these things. I don’t think by our present kind of National Assembly we can arrive the El Dorado. No way. Because when you hear the contribute, the other person who was talking to them on the National Assembly platform just a few days ago was using strong words. I recorded those strong words. To them, it was just like somebody shouting to people, saying, all of you are blindfolded. You are going down, down, down. They are going to push you all into the river. And you have come to the edge of the precipice. You can’t even wake up. You can’t even shout. Just a little push and all of you will enter. They are not moved because they are blind.

They are trusting in those who are leading them to lead them to the right place to land. But the person who is shouting in the field is one mad man. He doesn’t know what he is talking about. That’s the thing.

This is why military coups take place. And the people will first shout and welcome the military people.

And the politicians will start to bribe them and campaign against them. They come with a slogan- The worst civilian government is better than the best military. It’s a lie. People have asked me, which one does God support. I told them, check Israel and the other nations. God has no preference. He says that when the righteous bear rule, the people rejoice. But when the wicked is in authority, the people suffer. It means there will be anarchy, trouble, and complaints, crying, woes, and weeping. Yeah. So, they will tell you, no, no, no, no, no. We don’t want it. We will follow that way which will perpetuate corruption, perpetuate ignorance, perpetuate the mighty, going always against the poor. The poor become poorer.

The rich become richer. With Nigeria’s case, it is super rich versus abject poor. They can’t even see to eat. You can’t tell me now how a Nigerian can use N60- or N80,000, even if they take the national wage now, to that level. How can he? When the house rent alone will take that amount?

There is the allegation that the National Assembly played the fast one on Nigerians in the Electoral Acts amendment. From what you see now, do you foresee a credible election in 2027?

Credible? You know that if you have a good foundation, you can relax when the rain is falling; when the flood is flowing, and when the wind is heavy, because of the good foundation. The Bible says the same thing. That if the foundations are destroyed, what can even the righteous do? When a building is cracking, check the foundation. When you see that the walls are collapsing, check the foundation, especially when it’s not from the roof. I think that whether you are talking about 2027 or any other election ahead of us, you should ask yourself a question. Whenever an election is coming up, you see the people mobilising. Some are even saying, I’m taking permission from my office, I will travel, I’m going to vote on their own. But now, they will only be preparing after the politicians have announced the beginning, and then got to bribe them, and call them, and form them into groups, and give them their own share, before they will now begin to mobilise their friends, who have been blindfolded to join them.

That’s why I still refer them to Babangida’s Option A4. That Option A4 worked for Africa. They should explore these things and know the one that works for us. We have pointed them out several times. But I think maybe, they are looking for blood on the streets before they wake up. Former president Jerry Rawlings did it in Ghana. I pray it doesn’t happen for Nigeria. Because whatever will save us and make us better, let God’s will be done. It’s easy to bribe a hungry man. A hungry man is an angry man. If he hasn’t satisfied his hunger, he would not want to listen to any other thing. The people are poor and famished. And their leaders are giving them handouts. From hand to mouth. Which country survives with that kind of leadership and citizenship the kind we have in Nigeria? It is when they are empowered. Empowerment according to rules and regulations that have empowered other nations in the world. The country has appointed a president that within three years took them out of the poor state to a good level of wealth state. And then another one came up, succeeded and took them to another level. Where is our national blueprint? Who is executing it? I think 2027 will not be better than 2023. Though they know what to do.

They cannot do it because the sycophants in power, which we call cabal, are not ready to give up. I repeat that at a stage between the going out of Buhari and the coming in of now president Tinubu, the press was able to name some people who were known as cabals in different sectors that worked with Buhari. Now, why can’t they prosecute them? Jonathan was able to pinpoint that there were cabals in his own military and terrorism matter. Who has dealt with any of this? I have given you where to look. Look into the newspapers they have mentioned them. They have mentioned them. Look into the judiciary. Look into other places.

For you as a Nigerian and a leader of the people, what can you say about the nation’s economy? Is Nigeria getting better economy wise?

No, no, no. From what I see, the Nigerian economy is going down down down down. It’s only getting better better better at the offices, homes, friends and anything managed by those in charge of governance in Nigeria. My schools, if not God, I will be begging now. My water company, if not God, would have packed away. My houses, if not God, the tenants would have all left. Nothing is working. In the church of God, tithes are going down. Offices are going down; they are closing down. It’s not only happening to Leonard Umunna. It’s happening all over Nigeria Please, whosoever is telling this wicked lie to comfort our president, our governors, our local government chairmen, etc, should be careful not to attract the wrath of God, because when the righteous rule, the people will rejoice. Then the president, the governors, the local government chairmen will be feeling this They may be telling us like Babangida, tighten your belt, tighten your belt, but the people are not just bleeding, but are almost in coma? That’s the way I’m seeing it. I have many things I would have used to give as points, but let it be said loud and clear, Nigeria is not getting better until we are able to produce something and you can employ somebody at a local level. The SMEs, small scale industries, are dying. The sign of a growing economy and development is the presence of flourishing companies that employ citizens. We used to have those big petrochemical companies in Nigeria; we used to have Michelin Industries, PZ, Liver Brothers; where are they now? Do you see their staff? When did you see a new vehicle bought by somebody in your streets? No, when did you see a new house well-made and they say one man whose son or daughter went to work in a big company built the house, or he is the one building that thing. Do you see such a thing? Let us be realistic.

I am not happy; I’m a bit angry because I see how my people are suffering.

The youth in Nigeria, though highly talented, are languishing in penury because there are no opportunities to make them explore and eke out a living for themselves. How do you think the youth can excel in this environment?

The advice I’m going to give, I’ve given it several times, let them make a try at it and see what will be the result. Whether it is curriculum you call it or whatsoever, change the whole system. Let them not be graduated based on academic qualification. Change the system. Let them come up with their profession and be trained there so that at the examining stage, even if you have 100-level, some things have started. 200-level, team will be sent to go and see how you are going with it or your strategies or what you have started or what you and others you have invested in are coming out with. They can ask for loan, whether from government, and they will see where it is being invested. If they at the end know that you are going to graduate based on your output, your professional know-how, that is your product; not all this telling us to export, you should increase the value or do this; you know certain songs they are singing to make us feel that if we export you will make it. And then they will be giving us many training institutions which are in the private sector too. Which are themselves looking for ways to exploit and make it because the economy is bad.

But if government now changes their method and makes it that you are not going to go and graduate with paper and come out. Your products will be the things that will graduate you. Before you reach level 400, you would have become somebody who is even eager to get out of school and go into full scale production. You would have got a network of friends and partners from other areas. They are even thinking of how to expand. If they adopt it, they will do better. Two, you see many secondary schools. I do see them on television. They are wasting talents. They are now going between those who enroll to study computer, computer to turn out to be Yahoo, Yahoo. And those who are trying to model some nations. You see them, they make some aero planes. They make some machines. Different, different things like Americans do. Japanese people do. They try to manufacture certain things. Who is sponsoring them or taking them? Except you go through, who do you know? My mama, my papa, my brother, my sister, my friend, my family, me and my friend, my political party. That is what is destroying Nigeria. I hope our leaders will learn to do the right thing.

Number three, which is the most important. Why is this ‘Japa’ syndrome not dying? Why is it alive? I have told you that it will continue to be alive as long as there is no good governance. You know that you cannot make your paper and use it to make out any good thing in Nigeria. You would like to use the little you have, go outside and improve. And whatever you get with it there, the better for you. A country must not run this way. We must change.